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If you ever have an issue with how someone is RPing and both participants feel they are the one that's right; for example, someone is auto-hitting and refuses to edit after you ask, post the dispute here and a staff member will give a verdict on the issue. If you find yourself being the subject of one of the posts in this thread you may of course have one post to argue in your defense. You have 24 hours after the person posts the initial complaint before the case will be judged regardless.

[b]Link to thread:[/b]

[b]Other participant's name:[/b]

[b]Area of dispute:[/b]

Rules:

1. Before making a post here please be sure to try and work the problem out with the other party. If that fails then you may post here but please inform the person that you are doing so.

2. Do not make more posts in the thread where you are having an issue after the problematic post occurs, otherwise it is seen as a sign of acceptance, and we don't want situations to occur where someone throws a fit if they get killed and tries to look for a way out from the past posts in the thread.

3. Decisions made here are final; please do not spam the thread with arguments if the ruling doesn't go your way or complain in the box as it just causes more problems. If you have proof that the decision was not fair or correct, you can PM the admin regarding an appeal.

4. Do not use rude language or insult people here, it will result in a 24 hour ban on the site.

Link to thread: akatokiyami.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wasteland&thread=5306&page=1#37723

Other participant's name: Andra (Dect)

Area of dispute: In Dect's last post as Andra, Shi appeared to suddenly have a tail in the form of several airborne Adjuchas. In previous threads, Shi has shown nothing but vigilance and alertness, and it is insinuated that he would be foolish and narrow-minded enough to allow such to happen, contrary to prior behavior. In addition, I feel that the sudden appearance of airborne enemies is more than just chance, I made no mention of anyone tracking Shi.

I have only mentioned the scent of blood, knowing that in all likelihood, Kurai's Hollow can smell him coming given his position relative to hers. That being the case, I feel it is not impossible to assume that Shi would notice multiple shadows tailing him far before then, and would take the necessary measures to avoid them.

That is my part in the dispute.

To make things go more swiftly, I will revoke my chance to defend the dispute. I feel the moderators will make a fair decision upon reading the thread themselves.

Oct 3, 2012 20:14:16 GMT -8 @ryuuachi said:

Link to thread: akatokiyami.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wasteland&thread=5306&page=1#37723

Other participant's name: Andra (Dect)

Area of dispute: In Dect's last post as Andra, Shi appeared to suddenly have a tail in the form of several airborne Adjuchas. In previous threads, Shi has shown nothing but vigilance and alertness, and it is insinuated that he would be foolish and narrow-minded enough to allow such to happen, contrary to prior behavior. In addition, I feel that the sudden appearance of airborne enemies is more than just chance, I made no mention of anyone tracking Shi.

I have only mentioned the scent of blood, knowing that in all likelihood, Kurai's Hollow can smell him coming given his position relative to hers. That being the case, I feel it is not impossible to assume that Shi would notice multiple shadows tailing him far before then, and would take the necessary measures to avoid them.

That is my part in the dispute.

Oct 3, 2012 21:13:45 GMT -8 @dog said:

To make things go more swiftly, I will revoke my chance to defend the dispute. I feel the moderators will make a fair decision upon reading the thread themselves.

In any case involving NPCs used for combat in such a manner by a person who is not a staff member, or staff appointed member running an event, all participants in the thread need to agree to introduce the combat element or consent after it is posted. On this alone, the post will either need to be edited or deleted if Shi, Ryuu, and Kasha did not all agree to it.

However, Sei, your reasoning here is wrong. When you are conveying your actions in a format such as written RP, if you don't write it, it's not happening. You don't have Shi scanning the area or on the watch for anything and prior to reaching the group, you actively state you are only focusing on Kasha and that your blood scent would be in range of adjuchas' nose.

Regardless, the latter is irrelevant due to the former and the post needs to be edited or deleted if the three participants other than Andra do not agree to the new entries.

Well I thought it was kind of cool to suddenly have outsiders hone in on the group out of the blue like that and was working up a reply when I found out in the chat that it was being disputed. The NPCs were stated to be RPd by the participants and I figured it would be an interesting combat scenario.

So, I have no problem with this occurrence and will wait until the decision is made before posting.

Understood Ki. I am voting no to the attack scenario, plain and simple.

Personally I don't mind either way. I'm fine if we decide to go with the NPCs attacking or if they don't.

Link to thread: akatokiyami.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=seconddis&action=display&thread=5355

Other participant's name: Kiba

Area of dispute: Dunno how to format this part, so I'll just type as if I'm talking to the board: So, as Ki explained in the box (and in PM), Cain's action of killing Andra off in a past thread is 'fine', at least that's what I kept deriving from her replies. However what I can't wrap my head around around is the logic. If he did kill off Andra in a past thread, then what do we do about the current thread Andra's in now? Everyone has to edit their posts accordingly, on top of this, all previous threads need to be edited/deleted and any deleted or edited should have the RP points taken/redistributed to format Andra having been killed five years ago.

If however Ki is saying that Cain's post does not count, then it needs to be deleted and I request that I be the one to kill off Andra not only properly but in the original fashion I had chosen. Because he's my character. And before you go on to say I deleted my account with the intention of quitting, I did, for like a second. But then I came to the solution that would allow me to continue to RP on here, free of further drama. For not being able to utilize Andra any further, is a more than enough punishment. So I don't think you should use the excuse, "you deleted the account, so we'll do with what Andra what we like," especially since it was deleted for less than 24hrs. However, it is totally up to you, I'm just asking.

Lastly, I already killed off Andra already in the present thread, yet Cain deleted my post and went on to do it himself in a past thread. There was no need for his post both in the sense that it is illogical and that the situation had already been handled. I'm not asking for much, and I know I said I dropped it, but I figured if I did what Cain did, I'd be asked to correct my mistakes. I'm only being reasonable and obliging by the rules, nothing more. I just want either an explanation that would help me understand this, or for it to be fixed. That's all.

Oct 22, 2012 13:27:20 GMT -8 @dog said:

If he did kill off Andra in a past thread, then what do we do about the current thread Andra's in now? Everyone has to edit their posts accordingly, on top of this, all previous threads need to be edited/deleted and any deleted or edited should have the RP points taken/redistributed to format Andra having been killed five years ago.

--insert break to keep quote coding business I don't understand--

Lastly, I already killed off Andra already in the present thread, yet Cain deleted my post and went on to do it himself in a past thread. There was no need for his post both in the sense that it is illogical and that the situation had already been handled. I'm not asking for much, and I know I said I dropped it, but I figured if I did what Cain did, I'd be asked to correct my mistakes. I'm only being reasonable and obliging by the rules, nothing more. I just want either an explanation that would help me understand this, or for it to be fixed. That's all.

Not entirely certain where to start, so I'm gonna hit the points as they show up.

- What do we do about the thread he's currently in?

The post you made in the thread was deleted for two reasons: first, the death in the past had been posted about twelve hours before the exit you made, and second, because your post didn't really make sense in the logic of AK, first because the chef fella would have known to just leave the business to the Shinigami - meaning most of your posts were wrong anyways once he'd been openly accused of being a Hollow - and because people can't eat Hollow, so the chef wouldn't have ruined his kitchen.

As well, the state of the current-tense Andra is going to be handled in my next post, where it will be revealed he's been dead all along and used as a device to usher in the concept of the next story point. Sorry for spoilers, but I'm not one to leave a question unanswered. :/ I would have had the post up two days ago, but I have a hard time concentrating before two days of flights.

- Everything and all characters need editted.

Nah, using the logic previously annotated, this is false. The 'general goal' Andra displayed of attempting to enter Seireitei will more or less be given a plot-granted reason because, well, it'll make sense in context, so the weird doppleganger thing won't be an issue.

- Cain killed Andra after I already did.

As said earlier, my post was made after you deleted your account; your post was made like, several hours later, after you remade the account and changed the name. So I was there first, and this point is incorrect.

- Being reasonable, not asking for much.

To be fair, you called for all attributed RP handed out in all threads you participated in be redacted. Kind of a big deal. o.o

I apologize if you really had posted first. I was under the assumption (at the time, assurance) that it was I who did.

Cain did not clear the past thread stuff by me and did not inform me of his plans until after I read his reply here. -_- As I have been telling you from the beginning when you brought this up via PM, Dect, consider the past thread void, as if it never happened. Cain will clean up the mess in the present thread so it can continue, but Andra is deceased one way or another and it's being taken care of, so don't worry about it.

Link to thread: You and Me Go Fishin' in the Dark

Other participant's name: On my side of the dispute - Kurisuna. On the opposite side of the dispute - Ryuu

Area of dispute:

The nature of the dispute is one we've seen many, many times: a thread has taken a turn for the combat, and in short order two characters have put into direct peril a third. In the current situation, beginning here, Kiba has lifted Ryuu into the air and thrown him bodily at Kurisuna, who has used Shunpo to close the distance while Ryuu was mid-air to swing for his neck here.

The meat of the dispute is that in Ryuu's latest post here, he has attempted to "fire a bala at his side in order to move himself out of the way of the sword that was being swung"; later conversation would reveal his intended meaning was to fire the bala into the ground and ride the detonation into an altered course, which would cause Kurisuna's swing to sever his cheeks rather than his lips, leaving him with a glancing blow and the freedom to simply run away, largely unaffected.

The dispute leveled by myself and Kurisuna is that the Bala is not powerful enough to alter a body's trajectory when launched sufficiently to move them through the air, nor is the explosive force of a Bala great enough to sent a body moving through the air. As well, we feel Ryuu neglects to compensate for Kurisuna's Excellent-tier swordsmanship ability allowing her to easily remedy the distance of a slash that measures hardly six inches in distance, to correct the cut and place it where she aimed.

Ryuu's further claim is that he desires, then, to edit the Bala into a Cero - another claim we dispute, as the short distance and time from Kiba's throw to Kurisuna's sword is certainly not great enough to charge and fire a Cero ground-ward in a single post, even taking into account Ryuu's unpeered Reiatsu tiers.

We understand the current vague nature of the Abilities makes these claims difficult to match - and I am currently in the process of attempting to draft updates to abilities to remedy this - but in the end, the dispute comes to the following: Kurisuna and I believe, regretfully, Ryuu has entered into an inescapable situation, or at the very least, a situation he alone is incapable of escaping, and his disagreement, while understandable, is not being backed with any functioning logic. To that end, Kurisuna and I believe further that Ryuu's fate is at the very least to accept his hit as Kurisuna describes it, regardless of his unwillingness to accept said fate.

First off I would like to apologize for the links only going to the page and not the actual post. I have no idea how to link to a specific post.



To post my counter-argument I will begin with what I believe to be Ryuu's positioning or at least what my interpretation of it was. As Kiba said, Ryuu was thrown into the air by Kiba by pulled him towards Kiba followed by driving his shoulder into Ryuu and pushing with his free hand. So I would say that this would keep Ryuu close to the ground and I would guess that it would be about a foot off the ground.

While I do agree with Kiba that actually firing a Bala wouldn't be able to move Ryuu due to the lack of recoil, I have to disagree with his second point. While the Bala detonations are localized Ryuu would still be close enough to the explosion that it should alter his course. As we've seen in the zombie event Ryuu's bala were able to punch holes through a flying zombies stomach (As shown on Sumie's first post on this page) and also create a large enough hole at the end of a hallway for Ryuu and Sui to sonido out of (As shown on the second post for Ryuu on this page). In addition when one of Ryuu's Bala clipped a building it was enough to knock off a fair amount of debris despite not even hitting the wall head on (Sumie's first post on this page). These show that a Bala does have a lot of force behind it and I feel that force would be enough to alter Ryuu's course enough to not get beheaded.

As for Kurisuna adjusting her swing, I felt that this action would occur suddenly enough for Ryuu to dodge the attack though compared the the other two issues I would say this one is much more up in the air.

For editing the bala into the cero, that would be a bit closer to a backup post although the changes would be minimal. I have seen a few times when there has been an issue it was okay for one of the people to make an edit to their post. In this case it would have been that Ryuu would start to gather reiatsu when he realized that Kiba had prevented his escape though the rest of the post would be the same except for that and Ryuu using a cero. I feel that this extra time would have been enough for Ryuu to use a cero given that in the zombie event it took what I would guess to be about 5 seconds at the most to charge it up and use it (Ryuu's first post on this page).

So given how powerful bala has been shown to be in a previous thread due to it's ability to punch a hole through a creatures stomach, create a hole in a wall at one point and shower an alley by just clipping a house. I believe that based on these previous examples, a bala would have enough force to alter Ryuu's course enough to escape beheading.

I'd like to put in my two cents, being that I highly question the validity of the entire sequence, including, but not limited to, Ryuu's Bala. Since Cain has covered our qualms well, I've just a few things to bring up to bolster our argument.

First and foremost is Ryuu claiming that, upon his being thrown bodily and palmed in the stomach, he would find himself capable of rearing back his head (which would realistically snap toward Kiba) from an upright or angled position, by which point he intends to spot, process, and react to Kurisuna's incoming swing in the woefully insufficient span of allotted to him.

Additionally, although I will admit I am not entirely clear on the 'butterfly wings' simile, a second point is that Ryuu has been consistently operating with reckless disregard for his character's limitations: he has been struck in the abdomen by one of Excellent strength, and yet this has not wound him in the slightest. No matter the injuries the Arrancar has sustained, he continues to function at peak efficiency, never mind his stellar, if not outright irrational reaction time.

Here, I refer back to Cain's conclusion: we strongly believe that Ryuu has spurned for himself a predicament inescapable through the means he has described his character to perform, and should note that neither of us are willing to undergo additional editing.

Let me first address the use of the zombie event as evidence to the defense. The event was a one hit one kill event with logically played out attacks even if characters didn't necessarily have the skill or strength to do so in normal circumstances such as, for example, Yoshiya cracking two skulls with one swing of his staff, though the targets also happened to be rotting which weakened their forms. This was done to make sure the event moved fairly quick and because, believe it or not, I am not trying to kill characters when I do events. As for what you claimed Bala did to the surroundings, please take note that the majority of the damage was not caused by your character's use of Bala, but by the Brute which first smashed the entire front end of the building off, thus destabilizing and weakening the rest of it.

As for linking to individual posts, there is a small link at the bottom of each post above the signature area that says link to post. It will change the url in your address bar to the url of the post in question so that when you link it and someone clicks on it, it will take them to that post. Now on to the rest of the issue.

Bracing himself for the hit that was sure to come, Ryuu's muscles clenched from the pain as Kiba knocked into him and sent him flying.

Ryuu's muscles clenching from pain is far from what the actual damage would be. As Chakaara mentioned, Kiba is as strong as they come. Ryuu on the other hand is as weak as they do. The latter doesn't have so much to do with the stats themselves as it does with Ryuu's body. When someone targets the solar plexus/abdomen area, if they are well conditioned (like a fighter/athlete), it means the muscles in that area tend to be more well developed, thus protecting that area from as much damage as it would normally take, or you could be super fat, I guess, but Ryuu does not have either advantage, leaving him wide open to the common effects of a strong strike to this region, which Kiba's was given that it was enough to send Ryuu through the air. The very least that would happen is Ryuu would experience a diaphragm spasm, or in short, he'd have the wind literally knocked out of him.

Crazy, as you take a martial arts class, I assume you've had similar experiences, either with having the wind knocked out of you or experiencing pain beyond what is considered normal. Now multiply that by ten and that's what Ryuu would be experiencing at this point and it's safe to say that he would not be functioning at full level either physically or mentally (adrenaline can only compensate for so much). While Shunpou can be heard, in the few seconds that transpired between Ryuu flying through the air and Kurisuna approaching from behind, it is unlikely Ryuu would have been capable of forming much of a plan much less executing it given the physical state he would have been in.

As for the execution of the plan in question. Bala does not possesses the concussive blow back even at close range detonation (which would require impact into a solid object) to move Ryuu's weight. The whole reason Bala is quick is because it has significantly less power than Cero. It is also not designed to be singularly concussive, like Sho which would have had more of the effect you desired. Your confusion to a point is understandable as we do need to clarify the abilities more as per Carb's suggestion. However, you not only proceeded with a counter to your predicament in your damaged state, you also went on the run and are preparing an attack. Simply registering that the character is in pain is not the same as being effected by it. So even if the Bala was capable of moving you mid-air (which it's not unless you have a childlike frame), the two foot distance stated in Kurisuna's post and the length of Kurisuna's blade plus her arm reach being more than that to compensate any minor shift means Ryuu would not have been able to avoid her strike by as much as was claimed.

I'm sorry, but as it stands given the situation, Ryuu would have suffered an immediately fatal strike or a soon to be fatal strike (bleeding out/airway slashed type wound).

Since there are two issues here, I am going to put in two disputes.

Link to thread: akatokiyami.proboards.com/thread/5973/home-watsons-2001?page=1&scrollTo=55422

Other participant's name: Cain

Area of dispute:  Kiba's death at the time of this thread.

First of all, I am going to take the position that unless specified, a present thread takes place on the date that it was created.

Kiba died at the end of Bloodlust. As per this post this thread takes place the evening of the Hollow attack on the Rukongai, shown here and here. The date on these two threads is April 12th. As such, Kiba would have died late on April 12th or early April 13th.

To watch from afar is vague about when it occurs. Kurai's post says it occurred "a couple months" since Ryuu's death, Sotaru merely says "it'd been a while." I believe it is safe to say that in this case, couple should not refer to a literal two months, but rather a short period of time. You and Me Go Fishin' in the Dark... started on Jan 15th. Regardless this post in the event describes Kurai as being "recently evolved."

I believe it safe to conclude that "To watch from afar" occurs after "Shake Down the Walls" and "Zealous Fervor". As such, "At home with the Watsons" which happens "a few days after"  after "To watch from afar" and thus occurs after "Bloodlust". Kiba is dead as of the thread in question.

Link to thread: akatokiyami.proboards.com/thread/5973/home-watsons-2001?page=1&scrollTo=55422


Other participant's name: Cain    


Area of dispute: Sotaru's witnessing of Ryuu's death.

There are two points needing addressed.

1) Whether a character not created at the time of the event can claim to have witnessed it.

2) Whether Satoru could have witnessed Ryuu's death.

For the first point, characters are not created with their birth being the present. They have histories, and have seen things which happened at their date of creation. For example, Yumi witnessing the attack of Hollow upon Seireitei (an event which occurred four months before her creation) is a major part of her character.

For the second, I am going to start from a position where he had, and state that he could have gone through unobserved. And it is simply this. The thread takes place in a forested area at night. Ryuu, Kurisuna, Kiba, Shigeo and Shi mention being in cover, or otherwise having their vision obscured. Furthermore, no participants in this thread have Reiatsu Sensing. Aside from that, three characters in that thread have heightened levels of observation, although each of them could have missed Satoru.

First of all is Kiba, who can hear noises by placing his ear to the ground. Whilst this may have allowed him to hear Sotaru as he fled after Ryuu's death, he did not. Indeed, in the immediate aftermath, Kiba had an argument with Kurisuna. I maintain that it is possible that he could have missed Satoru's escape.

Secondly is Kurai, who has thermal vision. However, by this time Kurai had fled.

The third is Sotaru himself, who has animal senses, though Sotaru being aware of himself is obviously not an issue here.

Indeed, Kiba himself says "Where there're two (Hollow), there're two hundred." This would appear to be an acceptance that there were probably other Hollow around that they were not aware of.

As such, we cannot say without reasonable doubt that Satoru was not there to witness Ryuu's death.

With fortune, my rebuttals will be as equally persuasive, though I admit I'm not taking as much time to scour profiles and such as once I would - bed time doth approach!

Put simply, the timelines are not something I'm prepared to argue. They've been something of a tizzy from day one and I'm not about to pull out my moon charts to gauge star movement and planetary alignments - this particular point is whimsy enough I won't bother arguing it further than I did in my first post.

Suppose, then, the actually important matter be attended!

Firstly, the logical leap from a three-man skirmish to a full-blown Hollow attack is, quite literally, the greatest I've witnessed in a while now, and that's saying something with some of the conversations I've been privy to. Secondly, the first major difference between the Yumi example and the Satoru example, is that the Yumi example was an RP'd event that others could have argued for or with, whereas the Satoru example is purely 'cause I said so'. There was no room to be argued, to be found, or for him to find anybody else.

It would, for instance, be similar to myself creating a character and stating in some thread or other that they were the surprise hidden witness in some crime, say, Yoshiya performed that until that point had gone completely unheard of or unwitnessed. It would be meta-gaming because not only was the character not around for any such purported thread, but even were it done in a thread, that character was not at all present in said thread except by their post-fact declaration of 'yeah huh'.

This is why, for instance, a post or two of mine giving brief detail regarding Kiba's ascension to the rank of Taicho have gone by and large without whole definition - it would require the participation of all other acting Taicho at the time to gauge their reactions, et cetera, and until they declared their reactions, I would be meta-gaming to attribute reactions to them. The same is true in reverse - it is incredibly common sense that any events that were performed in privacy in a thread, unless viewed by a character in the thread, remain private until one of the involved parties spreads word.

Now, there are ways around this - for instance, if Satoru had registered with having witnessed the event in their history, and if that passage had been approved by all involved - being that it applied to all of them - then yes, having that knowledge would be within character. However, I certainly don't recall ever giving any such approval, because I wouldn't have.

Essentially, you're arguing characters should have the right to see into threads that ended or are closed simply because they say they can - essentially the greatest definition of meta-gaming information I've ever perceived.

There are two points needing addressed.

1) Whether a character not created at the time of the event can claim to have witnessed it.

2) Whether Satoru could have witnessed Ryuu's death.

As these were the only two clear points presented to be, they will be the only points I am currently addressing. If you have something else, please clearly define it for me so I can get to the bottom of it quicker.

1) If a character was not created in time to witness an event, here meaning 'thread' and not 'Event', which is a thread that drives the plot along, then that character should not have any knowledge of it: he did not take part, therefore, he was not there, therefore, he has no knowledge of what transpired. Anything else fits the definition of meta-gaming, which is taking knowledge gleaned from anything other than in-character interactions and applying that to an in-character point of view.

2) As this is the case, Satoru was not in that thread, therefore, Satoru could not have witnessed Ryuu's death. He is perfectly capable of assuming that, in his prolonged absence that Ryuu could have died if that is easier to swallow than the thought of abandonment, but he cannot have this concrete evidence that Kurisuna killed Ryuu because Satoru was not there.

First of all I would like to thank you for your ruling in the second instance, and apologise for my lack of clarity in the first.

As part of the mod intervention in question, Cain put the following:

As well, based on the timeline of this thread (a few weeks after the previously linked), Kiba would not at this time be labeled missing (not that he ever was) or presumed dead, as at this time, he would not be dead.

The evidence I have given above is to illustrate that "At home with the Watsons" occurs after the end of "Bloodlust", the thread in which Kiba died, making the above assertion false.

Nov 17, 2013 16:29:16 GMT -8 @gfjmember said:

First of all I would like to thank you for your ruling in the second instance, and apologise for my lack of clarity in the first.

As part of the mod intervention in question, Cain put the following:

As well, based on the timeline of this thread (a few weeks after the previously linked), Kiba would not at this time be labeled missing (not that he ever was) or presumed dead, as at this time, he would not be dead.

The evidence I have given above is to illustrate that "At home with the Watsons" occurs after the end of "Bloodlust", the thread in which Kiba died, making the above assertion false.

There has never been any formal announcement that he died, so it would not be public knowledge. Furthermore it was just confirmed by Kurisuna to the remaining council members in the council meeting not two rounds of posting ago.

Additionally, this falls into the previous ruling on Meta-gaming: If you were not there, you do not have knowledge of it. It is the duty of the threadmaker to note when and where the thread is taking place in the greater scheme of things, as well, so it is important to keep that in mind when creating threads in order to prevent things from getting quite as confusing as they are in this instance.