Because it has been requested, here's a poll for people to decide what changes they want to see made, how many they want to see made and, if the choice is not 'all as quickly as possible', please post in a reply stating how long you would like to wait between updates being made. As well, if you would like to see the updates made incrementally, please include in what order you would like to see updates made.

Be advised, because we do have a relatively small set amount of members, any items that do not receive 'majority' voting will be considered as 'not wanting to be implemented'. So, let the voting begin, I suppose.

You can see what each item is/means here

Something this poll doesn't capture is the strength of feeling.

Some stuff I am strongly for, some I don't really care for, some I'd rather not see and some I think will be the ruination for us all

Wastelands relocation, phase one (putting the board back) is quick and, as far as I can tell, pretty uncontroversial, and thus should be done ASAP.

Payment, I'm happy with the 20g a fortnight if our cash mod is happy. If he isn't, then I'd rather have 40g every 4 weeks.

Secondary Characters and NPCs (or whatever we call them), I think we have most of the kinks sorted out. I would implement them after the event. One gripe is the separate accounts issue. I would at least like the choice to have both characters on one account.

Stat caps, I'd rather have an increase to 4-3-3-2 without the payment thing, but I don't foresee myself griping after it is implemented.

Divorced tiers, think its a good idea, but I think they need investigated further, so be delayed for a bit.

Same with R&D tiers, but not so hot on that, I'd need to see how it works in practice before I can get firmly for or against it.

Not a fan of public otM threads, but I am glad anonymous nominations are allowed.

Still not really in favour of bounties. The economics need to be carefully considered.

So, for most of these, aside from Wastelands Phase 1, my thoughts can be summarised by this.

I think it kind of does, Jeff, considering it seems most people are voting for what they strongly want. o.o

One thing I don't think should be included is the PK benefit... cause, if you think about it, you'd be getting a bonus regardless by the quality of role-play; if you managed to fight your hardest and actually killed a character in the process, the points at the end of the thread should reflect that battle and kill. To me, it would just be granting them way too much. It's hard earned and worth it, then.

I'm all for second characters. Everyone has been kind of wishing for this for a while now, so woo! NPCs, eh... woo. Never bothered with them, mainly because I didn't have time to with all the other Original Characters I made for each faction. For those who can handle them, it will be good, but otherwise I just saw them as another way to burn out and get tired. So long as the NPC gets half the rp and the half doesn't also go to the PC, I'm cool with it; math and jazz confuses me, dawg.

Everyone can upgrade the R&D skills, if I remember right? Thinking on it, not much of a fan, but it seems only but a few are, so... yeah.

The past thread thing sounds like a paradox waiting to explode... D:

The wastelands being put back into it's original place should be a priority change, regardless of this voting, haha. It was a separate board before, so I don't see it much as a change but just returning to it's previous place.

I didn't vote on the gold, mainly because I don't use mine and... well, I didn't quite have a problem with it in the first place. I save, don't spend! ;] Realistically, if Ume were to role-play eating or grocery/shopping in general, I don't see it costing way too much.

Divorced Tiers, Tier Cap increase I mainly voted for too, because like everyone has been saying, it helps customization and character diversity... but if we're able to have the 4-3-3-2 AND the divorced tiers, are people going to put 4-4-3-3 in one tier column, then, say 3-3-2-2 in the skill tier column? I just think if they're separate, that whole increase might get a little confusing, unless we're strictly only allowing that increase for each tier [skill and stat]. So... yeah, just wondering. I don't remember if that was mentioned in the forum change thread. And what happens to those who started out with 4/4 in specific areas only because they needed the strength to be skilled and advanced in hand-to-hand? Everyone would be able to re-register?

I don't really remember the point of public otM threads... but I didn't really see a problem with the otM system before, so I didn't vote for that. .-.;

I think, honestly, it would be good to implement one or really a set amount of changes at a time; but the more I think about it, it might just be easier for staff to make all changes immediately. Still, I'd imagine it's quite some work, so I don't mind if it takes a week or so to incorporate like 2 or 3 changes, and so on. I'm just a little hesitant about the outcome really of these changes, but I guess we'll see. I didn't really have a problem with anything before on the site, but I'm willing to see how things work out. Anyway, thanks for putting this up, Cain. Appreciate it. =o

I agree with Court on the whole explosion of Paradoxes.

Paradoxes will only occur if you are not paying attention to your continuity. "This thread takes place after that thread which is still affected by that one thread from five months ago." I also can't stand the three or four or six month gaps in memory my characters have because I've not been allowed to follow up and continue on simultaneously.

sent from my notsosmartphone of breakingthingsness

For the time paradoxical stuffs, it's been suggested to me we make the cap at minimum one year from current. I know that kinda backtracks on the whole 'maintain characterisation from what just happened' thing, but short of a series of closed threads to cope with what happened, I can't really imagine how to give room for people to carry on with current events beyond what slower threads will allow and also prevent people trying to play a faux immortality card.

So does that sound like an okay compromise? One year back minimum?

If I understand your meaning (that past threads must be at least 1 year in the past, rather than 5), then that won't help the party which want it (if I understand their wishes) and it will cause temporal issues once this iteration has been running for a year.

For me, the problem is not being able to finish something with another character (ie, Mai being consoled by Harupia). That can't really be done in a closed thread because it's against the rules, which has me at a loss. I understand everyone's apprehension with possibility of creating a paradox or two, I really do, but I also don't want to be left out of anything because I am finishing up something that happened nearly six months ago.

I understand the point - I only just wrapped up my side of events stemming from a solid six months ago and have yet to begin responding to even more recent events - but unfortunately I seem to only be seeing a minority voicing the shared opinion and the majority crying 'but how will we keep things straight'. I grant that it seems that majority is well in a position to be the first people to govern themselves judiciously and not try to game the system as they claim to want to prevent others doing, but apparently seeing a potential for trouble and wanting to stop that trouble happening is not the same thing as not abusing that trouble if it isn't addressed?

Either way, somebody somewhere is going to have to make a compromise here, that's what conversation, debate and all that is about. You can't have two or more staunchly opposing sides who refuse to give any ground and expect anything to get done, yeah? So somebody, anybody, please try to meet me half way here, toss me a bone, something.

I'm happy to discuss the situation, and I have even offered up some proposed solutions. I feel as though I'm the only one actually helping to try and find something on the middle ground instead of just... nupe not gonna work derp don't wanna help derp. :/

edit: link to idea - in that post somewhere x.x

I'm with Frox on this one. I can quickly see where the need to play isn't getting filled, and that's the real problem here. I could give two flying horseshoes about continuity so long as people are having a good time. That's what running an RPG is all about, in my opinion. It's the same stance I've taken on my players in tabletops when they need to retcon and when I moderated a site where everyone wrote 8 paragraph novels for posts every single time. It's not nearly the same environment, but my opinion still stands firm.

Honestly, if you're concerned about timelines, this isn't going to work with people trying to mandate "be in this thread this many years ago and this thread this other many years ago and don't let it overlap with something that's an old present thread".

In my opinion, the only way to play it and have people the most satisfied is to play a Prisoner's Dilemma game and hope the other party remembers canon. When something isn't canon, PM them courteously and remind them what they missed. As I always quote from Youtube vlogger John Green, "Use your words."

If we do that, it should work, neh?

I think you're all missing the root of the problem: time marches on for the forum despite the fact that time has not marched on for the characters in threads. I realize the point of this is to prevent time-skips but considering how long threads take to finish we are experiencing mini time-skips constantly.

The only way to effectively fix the problem is to place a time limit on threads; ie, a thread must end after a month of being started. Which, as I'm sure you'll all agree, is incredibly unfair and stupid.

I'm also sure that you're all aware that if there's no minimum time period for when a past thread can take place then any current thread becomes a past thread the moment someone makes a new current thread.

I don't see a way of actually fixing anyone's concerns, which is why I don't participate in past threads.

Rip has basically hit the nail on the head - thanks for putting down what I really couldn't express, by the way. So yeah - there's really not going to be a way to please very many people here. So if we can't come to a better agreement, it's starting to seem the 'minimum five years prior' suggestion will be the rule?

I was thinking: why not have flashbacks within a thread? I dunno, unless we can somehow extend the time of how the site moves to correlate with the pace of threads?

But what are we aiming to get out of it? Being able to rp in a past season (current: spring, want to rp that last winter?) or are we focusing more on being able to just keep up with time flow according to the site?

Because... I think the most, we could do is go by the past season? But I'm fine with lessening the 5 year requirement to one year, if anything.

I wasn't intending on getting involved, but since it's become such an issue, I have a compromise to offer.

Remove the current time flow system and go back to player's establishing their own via their posts. Of course the year will be dictated by what is currently in the setting thread, but season/part of the year is determined by the OP (original poster for those that don't know). This would allow characters to make threads prior to site events made by staff (which will have time continuity) that have already occurred to take care of business they needed done, like in Frox's case without necessarily being 'past threads' because it would still count as the one present thread. The site events will also set a sort of time continuity for those not interested in making backtrack threads. For the main 'past threads' with the unlimited thread amount, they would need to take place at least one year prior to the current established year.

When the staff has deemed enough time or actions have passed to constitute a year, a mini-time skip will take place bringing the site forward to the next year.

Yes, no?

Continuity, for one. Because if I do what I want to do, I have a 201 year old amnesiac who also seems like a shut-in because she's only around every five months. My character is still in the fall season, while everyone else seems to have gone on toward spring without us. I want a chance to do things the way they're meant to be done and not have these retarding chunks of time that are blackouts. By moving on without finishing up, or not having the chance to continue on while finishing up, I am forced to cull my character's development and make assumptions about someone else's character just to barely scrape by, keep someone else from doing what they're supposed, and quite possibly prevent the grading of a thread.

That may work for you guys, but I stay here to better my writing, not have it caged by people too afraid to chance an idiot trying to be an ass and kill everyone because of an apparent loophole.
Here's a thought- enable pvp with an ask for permission function. Prevents "senseless random killing because I can" while still providing those who want to pvp with the choice

Flashbacks only work for characters in total agreement on the layout and function of the thread in question, or else it will end up in a confusing mess much like the A Day out with Daddy thread.


This is by no means a finished post, but I need to go to work and tackle it later on.
sent from my notsosmartphone of breakingthingsness

Ninjakistruckagain

sent from my notsosmartphone of breakingthingsness

So, yes. Does Ki's suggestion sit well with everybody?

The necessity that all threads must post linearly be done with, so that within the current year a player may begin a thread that occurs at any point in that year, and any thread that occurs prior is a past thread?

Year being 4 seasons or from Jan 1st?

Yes, a year is comprised of four seasons. We don't use numerical dates, so it'd be relegated to "2001, Summer".

Edit: To clarify, at any point in the year previous to the current year. Because the full year is open to being used for posts, there's not really any other way to say 'the previous year', right?

Could work, though I think we could have some mess if we don't use numerical dates, even if they were used OoCly

So, to clarify, on the 31st of December 2013, (real world) we could have a 'present' thread set in Spring 2001 nw?(akatokiyami years)

I'm not sure I agree. Wouldn't be too difficult to note X thread occurs before Y but after Z, even just from contextual clues. Not as though every day of the year must be accounted for, eh?

Addition: Within the year is within the year. If the in game year isn't moved forward before that date for some reason or other, sure. Otherwise that thread would be a past thread because it took place in the year prior to the current IG year.

That may work for one person, but when you add others....

Not sure what you mean by "Not as though every day of the year must be accounted for".

I'm not saying we should RP every single day in our characters' lives. o.o

As I stated in my post, we would remove the current time flow, which disconnects it from real world time. The RL day you make a post has nothing to do with what time it is on site. So you can make a post on July 7th, 2013, and it is a present thread in the year 2001 on AK, or you can make a post in September of 2013 RL, and claim it's from December of 2000 on AK, and be a past thread.

I like Ki's suggestion. The only problem I can see is if you made a thread that took place at the end of the year and when it was finished joined a thread that took place at the beginning of the year, and yet referenced things from the previous thread. Mind you, that's mostly up to the players to keep track of such things. And it's easily solved by ignoring it.

The only thing I can think to add is that maybe a vote should be held to decide if the year should progress. Obviously the admin/staff can decide when they feel enough has happened to warrant a march forward in time, but if the majority of the playerbase feels otherwise... It's best to let them vote, majority rule, to decide on whether the clock should roll forward a year.

Only problem I had was the bouncing between the seasons but then I realized I don't have to do that. >>

Wasn't trying to offend or attack anyone, so I apologize if I was the cause of this issue, if only a little, but I'm glad we had an in depth discussion of what could be done to solve this problem. I think, Ki, you make a good point, and so long as we keep ourselves in check like Frox had mentioned before, then it would likely be good; and of course not being all whacky about jumping into a current thread then going to the past and referencing the future and all that crap.

So, yeah, like I said before willing to try whatever the general consensus is! I just wanted to see what the concerns were, I suppose. So, thanks!

Alright, votes have been tallied, results are as follows.

Things not getting in:

R&D Skills, PK Bonuses, and Public otM threads.

Things that will be changing:

Acquisition of Second and Associate Characters.

Pay Increases

Divorced Tier Relations

Ability to purchase Tier Cap Increases

And finally, the Wasteland has been relocated to it's own sub-board.

Expect changes to come as/when they can, for now, I'm late to get dressed for work! Explanation of the new Thread Limitations/timeline manipulations to come!