|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 17:59:26 GMT -8
My two cents on paying Gold for stuff:
If you are in a player run establishment, most notably The Notched Axe, then I agree that your character should be paying Sengoku for the food you buy. It seems only fair. However! If you are in a non-player run establishment, and you are not getting anything tangible (ie, an item to go in your inventory), then I don't think you should have to pay for it. The money disappears and you don't get anything out of it.
I think this might encourage people to try running a business or something. Maybe. Players could sell things they make. For example, Frox had a character once who painted; she could open a shop and sell portraits to people in exchange for Gold. Yoshiya has Shinigami training; he could, as he's doing with Kurai, train people to fight in exchange for Gold. Maybe open a Dojo.
Mind you, I think you'd have to adjust the monthly income for players who ran their own businesses, to account for NPCs (the real kind, not the playable kind) partaking in the service.
Something else to mention! I never really understood the "High Ranking Character" thing. For Shinigami I get that Captains are of a higher military rank. But realistically, to start, the characters aren't really that much better. As Von has often pointed out to me, they don't even have Bankai. There is very little to distinguish a high ranking character from a low ranking one. I'm not saying this needs to be reworked or anything, because I don't really care, I just don't understand what the fuss is about.
I generally try to avoid playing a "high ranking" character; there's far too much pressure and basically no reward. Why be a Captain? In terms of the mechanics of the site you are exactly the same as an unseated member, only your activity rules are far stricter.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 19:14:35 GMT -8
For gold/items. I have to agree with what Carb said. If your in another PC's store and you buy something there you should have to pay the PC some amount. However that shouldn't apply if its in a random store that you made up just for the thread in order to have someplace to roleplay. Plus running a business of some sort seems to be a Rukon Citizens role for the most part. I think it would be fair for them to get something for that.
That said I think that if we do go with that, Jeff is right that the amount we currently earn isn't really that much. I know that Gaara mentioned making it bi-monthly so we could go with that. In addition we could also add things like activity bonuses at the end of each month. Plus Carb mentioned that we could adjust the monthly income for players who run their own businesses so we could take that into consideration. It could be that shinigami/adjuchas earn X amount, High ranking characters earn more and Citizens earn an amount depending on what their job is. Though if we did go with that then we just need to make sure we establish a workable minimum income.
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
36
Years Old
I AM THE BRINGER OF PAIN AND THE CONDUCTOR OF THE FEELS TRAIN! FEAR ME!!!!!
455 POSTS & 0 LIKES
|
Post by Bard "Dual-Strike" Alrikson on Apr 5, 2013 19:48:37 GMT -8
I just thought of a reason to allow R&D, or at least the creation of items: Character and Plot growth. Akiza mentioned before that she loves how Sengoku has his tavern. I did it because I wanted to try a new type of character. My previous characters have all been combat oriented. Their entire lives revolve around conflict. Not Sengoku. By giving Sengoku his tavern, I gave him something to build his character around. That tavern gives Sengoku something to do with his time that doesn't involve swinging an axe (normally). So why can't we have blacksmiths? Craftsmen? artisans? R&D can be used to give our characters lives, especially Rukongai based characters. It gives a reason for interaction, a way to spend gold. A character wants a new sword? He goes to a blacksmith. A character wants a gaudy little trinket? Jeweler. R&D, though little used in the past, now has a practical purpose. Sure, you could HAVE these jobs, but they'd be meaningless, fruitless exercises. Now, Sengoku's Tavern at this time doesn't really pull any sort of revenue or produce any actual items, but still this is something to think and build on. Maybe we don't call it R&D anymore. Maybe now we have crafting skills, or career paths.
Just an idea I had...
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
17
Years Old
Female
Heterosexual
Blessed are the Peacekeepers, Champions of the Just
4,162 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Mhairyn "Aryn" Dirson on Apr 5, 2013 20:15:43 GMT -8
I like Katsu's idea, and since someone suggested a 'high ranking' Citizen, perhaps these guys could go towards that concept.
I'm really bummed that the human posse I sort of created never got to have its chance at running a business....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 20:46:25 GMT -8
Or we could have four guilds, one from each district.
First district could be the farmer's guild.
Second would be the combined miner's and lumberjack's guild.
Third would be the merchant's guild.
Fourth could be the rebel leader or bandit king.
Unless this is sounding too much like the Shinigami. Although since Rukons do have a supply agreement with Seireitei, someone would probably need to co-ordinate production to some extent.
Or organise resistance/attacks, in the case of the rebels or bandits.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 0:12:20 GMT -8
Not to divert from the Rukongai citizens, but I'm gonna toss this up again real quick because I somehow missed it:
I am of this opinion as well, but RP was the biggest (for some, the only) incentive players had to participate in contests. Badges can alleviate this concern, but would they suffice for you guys? What sort of prizes do you want to see?
With currency becoming more substantial, I can accept reasonable amounts of gold for rewards; however, like Frox, I would rather not have characters benefit from OOC winnings at all, and cannot stand RP gained in this fashion.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 0:54:38 GMT -8
Does this fashion include the bounty and recruitment bonuses? Or CotM and WotM, as they are based on quality role playing? (panic disclaimer, genuinely only trying to get more info)
I do understand your concerns, though I must admit I do like the mechanical advantage that is gained from participating in contests.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 3:09:22 GMT -8
Oh you doves, you dear sweet angels.
So there's a lot of stuff that's been said - this post is to let you know I'M WORKING ON A REPLY JUST GIVE ME TIME ;^; Seriously, lots of shit to cover.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 4:28:24 GMT -8
First, NPC's. Before anything/everything else, yes, we need a new name. I know we had one prior to reset, but I've forgotten it, because this exact same argument came up then as now. In fact I think I was the first to bring it up then. Anyway.
Secondary Character? Minor Character? Character Assistant? Sub-Character? "Really a second character but don't tell Cain that, he's an idiot that's letting me register four characters lololol"? I think I'm for Character Assistant.
Next, the laconic definition: A character inexorably tied to another from the same player which grows at half-speed from the shared RP.
A Character Assistant must be of the same faction as the Primary Character and related via Division.
Any other questions?
I'm going to bring this up now, rather than later: Roleplay in Establishments. Honestly? I'm not forcing you guys to RP inside NPC Bars/Taverns/Noodle Stands/Aduit Bookstores, that's all on you when you either make the thread there or go there via RP. Similarly, even if you go to one that's being run by a character, I'm also not forcing you to actually buy anything. These choices are yours to make as you will - if you're in Katsu's Tavern and want to buy a half-rack of ribs, do it. Just want to sit back and natter with somebody else? Your call. Repercussions IC? Probably. OOC? Characters doing what they do. I don't see why this is coming up as a flaw in the system - if Katsu hasn't been pressing for pay, from characters who buy from him, mea culpa? Seriously, I didn't realize this was a thing - nobody ever said players couldn't give other players Gold, or lose some via pick-pocketing, or any other thing.
As well, crafts. Sumie is a painter - Kiba is a sculptor. He catches fish and can cook (rice). He routinely makes combat dummies for the Fourth Division. Why haven't I started trying to sell crap? I've been really, really busy trying to keep up with characterization threads yo. When was it ever said anybody couldn't be similar craftsmen? Be a silk-spinner, make dresses, be a farmer! Honestly, the only thing that's been limiting you people in this regard is your own imagination/initiative.
I take full blame, of course, for players not being able to make weapons and armor and sell those - because that would have compromised the system if it could have been done freely. Just as I won't be implementing a R&D skill for medicines/poisons - that would break the game. Same as why we've waited so long to create bows/arrows and why there will not be black powder weapons. By and large, these are not able to be combated. Hence why I'm trying to explain why a crossbow is a bullshit weapon and not be a dick about it.
But as we can see now, R&D for (basic) weapons and armor is a thing I'm willing to allow. It's going to be a pain in the ass, naturally, because it kinda throws a wrench at the OOC mercantile system, but hey, I'm not going to fight it - I want to keep you guys happy and interested in the game, after all. I'm just saying, that you guys seemed to think being makers of frivolous shit was utterly b&'d is kinda silly. Want to go on dates, buy dresses, but no player offers these things? Man there's a market district, just make the thread, we'll deduct your cash if you want. o.o
Thread limits - this is just getting confusing. I wanted to limit the number of past threads at a time just so that I wouldn't have to look forward to 20+ threads per person at the end of the week, but eh, people seem to be ready to limit themselves. So drop the past thread limitation from the count. One current thread for the Primary character, one for the Character Assistant, and an Event/anything labeled Event. Sound fair?
Payments, or specifically, cash income. 20 Gold a week sound good? I didn't really see any hard numbers, just "yeah agreed this should be fixed/looked at". Don't just voice opinions, y'all, explain them!
Because only one person seems to have a problem with the PVP thing altogether, I'll address 'em specific-like. The goal isn't to see more deaths, Jeff, but to reward people for what SHOULD be a more difficult achievement. Of course, since the game we play is based on the shonen-est of series, I won't complain at moar deaths.
To the whole 'but what if somebody makes a timey-wimey ball' thing, more or less what Chakaara said - if nobody is in a thread that's senior to the current, then that becomes the most current thread. Time fuckery might happen regardless - a thread comes and goes faster than another, and yet the people in the shorter thread appear in the longer - but that's what you people seem to want, so it's going to have to become more or less self-governing. Of course, if anybody thinks to try and cheat the system, Zeus' lightning bolt beats perceived notions of 'time that does not self-repair'.
So I realized the other day that the whole 'Account per Character' thing might be decided for us by Proboards V5, coming soon, which if I'm not mistaken implements a 'Proboards Wide' account system, which would in turn make having multiple accounts wildly inconvenient. Of course, we'll see when it happens, I suppose.
So what I'm seeing here is the perception that the designation 'High Ranking Characters' is moot.. and actually, I agree, mostly because I didn't realize the Arrancar Limit was still in place. So, let me put this out here, and see what everybody thinks:
Instead of such things, all characters begin with 5 Profile Points (Character Assistants get 3). Other then that, there really is no difference in factions regarding characters, except that Shinigami have Fukutaicho and Taicho, which frankly are chosen positions anyways. Opinions? Fears? Statements? Pie charts?
Current stat/skill caps are 4-3-2-2. I hesitate to want to increase this, because the goal with how they are was basically the statement "nobody can be great at everything". Only, 'good' instead, I guess. Basically we didn't want to leave room for more Aizen's/Cain's. But if we insist, how does this sound: For the cost of the desired cap, one can increase one cap one level to the limitation of 4-4-3-3. So 3-4 = 100 RP, 2-3 = 50. And no, you can't use an Orb for this. Opinions?
As for disengaging the Skills from the Stats so intricately, I understand the arguments for doing so, and am willing to give the point. So a new question - is anybody who got where they are in accordance with the current Stat-Skill relationship going to want to re-spec? I just need to see yes/no's, by the way - the overall answer will be what leads me to act.
Returning to 'things I don't believe we ever said you couldn't do', what gives the illusion that Rukon citizens weren't allowed to enter Seireitei? If I'm not mistaken, this was actually something asked in the 'Member Questions' thread and the answer was 'yeah, people can more or less go as they please except at night'. So... problem solved before it was ever a problem?
Without really going into it too much because frankly I don't want to make plans for more 'random' Events right now, yes, I think we can start looking at the old Random Item Event thing again. But that's on docket as 'the most minimal' tier of items, because I think we're touching on far more important things right now. But yes, this is something we can look at, and thank you for the reminder, Koji.
Relocation of the Wasteland - consider it done, will be happening... sooner or later. I don't want to give a hard timezone right now because, well, things are kinda weird right now in terms of work. But it will be going back to where it was, probably with more zone-ism-things.
I also understand people's questions regarding the Quality Points and their distribution. Fact is, there is no hard set rule for why or how - they're just given for what the grader perceives as quality. the goal with that was so that there is a curve, so that even people without great English skills can acquire them because of what they've done IC per thread - basically, incentive to just do the best you can, rather than skate by on a two paragraph post. As well, people will recall a time for when posts were awarded more points for being constructed according to a few guidelines, such as an elevated character count, et cetera, which lead to massive shitposts of fluff just so that people could acquire, I forget what it was at the time, three times the reward?
What I'm saying here is, I don't want to define what should get a quality point in absolute terms because that will, and it will, lead to people trying to game the system by meeting the letter of the criteria and not the spirit. But if you all really want me to, I can make up a list of demands to be met per post in order to achieve a second point.
For the whole 'three days or exited' thing, let me just outright say that I do not have the time to read every thread made to check to make sure everybody is doing what they're supposed to be doing/what they're volunteering to do and post every three days, especially with as many threads per character as we intend to start seeing. So for those of you saying "oh but then I might as well just not care and post once a week", let me give you this argument.
After three days, at any time you may be requested by another player to be kicked out of the thread. So consider your deadline three days, because after 72 hours you are officially on borrowed time and might as well be kicked out at any given moment so post quickly, else you will find that the people around you are suddenly not at all forgiving for your bullshit.
Sound fair?
The reasons I don't want to see MRE's (lol) is the same as why we're arguing for fewer Events in the first place - if we're constantly seeing Events, when do we have time for current threads that further characterization instead of just LOL NOW THIS GOAL MOAR POINTS MOAR MOAR MOAR. And if we make them so damned common (via the 'no exiting threads to play events' ruling) then why even have rewards for regular threads, since people are going to want perpetual events because they always offer better gains?
Staffing and related issues will be handled on the Staff board when this thread has run it's course, but suffice to say that nobody - nobody - is outright being released from the Staff panel. I blame nobody but myself for how things have gone thus far, and I will not take it out on my peers by just outright taking their positions away without consultation.
Finally, the Arrancar/Hollow argument - they don't have the same skillsets because the Arrancar by definition are basically supposed to be Shinigami. Could we have done better at differentiating them? Almost doubtlessly. But as it is, trying to revamp them now... actually no we don't currently have any Arrancar, just people thinking making some. So fine, I grant I could maybe do something, if not outright get rid of them and just make the Hollow able to be freely defined as humanoid or animalistic as the creator desires.
In fact, shit. That almost sounds like a really good idea. :/
Thoughts? Opinions?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 4:43:47 GMT -8
Update to the Tier thing - Just in case it's vague, Skills will be able to be leveled above/before Stats, but abilities will still be tied to Skills as they are.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 6:56:02 GMT -8
I am not for getting rid of Arrancar.
I mean, the Hollow don't have the nice white sands, bare naked quartz, Las Noches, menos, menos grande and Vatso anymore. Now we're hearing a suggestion to get rid of Arrancar? Hollow are becoming less and less like Hollow and more of a variation of an AK monster. I personally do not like that.
Actually, maybe we can bring the whole 'stat boost when you release your zanpakuto' back, because that very well could separate the Adjuchas and Arrancar in terms of power. The boost would apply to Shinigami as well.
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
24
Years Old
Female
Male
"Everyone dies. It's your turn today."
692 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Raewynne Cousland on Apr 6, 2013 8:04:27 GMT -8
Because I really had a quick idea and I wanted to perhaps jot stuff down...
Technically, we have fractions for levels, like if someone is an expert at something, they technically have 4/4 [1]. Say we do boosts again, and we do it by adding a specific number to that fraction. Each faction would have different fractions/factors.
I see humans being versatile and adaptive, so perhaps the factor that really makes them standout would be a prolonged release, but lesser increase in boost? That means that they'd have a longer duration/post count until their release ends, whereas an Arrancar/Shinigami's release would expire in a shorter time frame, however, they'd [Arrancar/Shinigami] have a stronger boost.
Maybe Arrancar would get +2, Shinigami +1.5, and Humans +1 to specific stats? Humans would have a 12 post duration, Shinigami 10 post, and Arrancar maybe 8? Would that make sense, or longer post durations/higher boosts? Closer boost differences? What'cha think? o.o;
I also want to talk about other things, so I will shortly, but I guess in another post, after I read everything I didn't get to, yet.
And by the numbers, I mean --> 4/4 + 2/4 = 6/4, not so that it's 3 or 2.5, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 8:36:54 GMT -8
Because I really had a quick idea and I wanted to perhaps jot stuff down... Technically, we have fractions for levels, like if someone is an expert at something, they technically have 4/4 [1]. Say we do boosts again, and we do it by adding a specific number to that fraction. Each faction would have different fractions/factors. I see humans being versatile and adaptive, so perhaps the factor that really makes them standout would be a prolonged release, but lesser increase in boost? That means that they'd have a longer duration/post count until their release ends, whereas an Arrancar/Shinigami's release would expire in a shorter time frame, however, they'd [Arrancar/Shinigami] have a stronger boost. Maybe Arrancar would get +2, Shinigami +1.5, and Humans +1 to specific stats? Humans would have a 12 post duration, Shinigami 10 post, and Arrancar maybe 8? Would that make sense, or longer post durations/higher boosts? Closer boost differences? What'cha think? o.o; I also want to talk about other things, so I will shortly, but I guess in another post, after I read everything I didn't get to, yet. And by the numbers, I mean --> 4/4 + 2/4 = 6/4, not so that it's 3 or 2.5, etc. I like the idea, but it wouldn't much separate the Arrancar and Adjuchas in terms of power, because when clashing with an Adjuchas who's stats are maxed, and let's say, an Arrancar who's stats are maxed, releasing would not give an Arrancar the upper hand because he cannot surpass the 4th tier. Before, stat boosts allowed us to surpass our cap. ps I had more to say, but I'm about to eat breakfast so terrible timing on my part x.x
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
24
Years Old
Female
Male
"Everyone dies. It's your turn today."
692 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Raewynne Cousland on Apr 6, 2013 8:41:15 GMT -8
The stat boost would allow him to technically surpass the 4th tier... o.O
Assuming we don't actually simplify the fraction, it would be 6/4, greater than max -> 1 and 1/2, a bit greater, unless we increase the amount to +4 = 8/4 [2].
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 9:13:25 GMT -8
Er, no. Stats as they are are turning into something of a quagmire, not about to throw boosts and other stat-affecting abilities back into the mix.
As to the differences between Hollow and Arrancar, they're already minor enough as is - for the longest time everybody wanted Segunda Etapa, which was literally nothing more than the ability to turn back into the Adjucha state and access those powers. So why not allow Adjucha to look like broken-mask wearing humans and retain their own powers in the first place, cutting out the middle man?
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
19
Years Old
Female
I'll be takin' this off yer hands~
890 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Kuerina Darkblaed on Apr 6, 2013 10:01:03 GMT -8
So in the end, having Kurai "evolve" would be for naught? If so, that really bums me out.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 10:22:22 GMT -8
Not saying you couldn't update the appearance. But what is gained by 'evolving'? Keep in mind, still getting opinions here. Just looking for any strong ones that have good reasoning for why the Hollow as-are don't need changed.
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
24
Years Old
Female
Male
"Everyone dies. It's your turn today."
692 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Raewynne Cousland on Apr 6, 2013 11:27:08 GMT -8
I'm down for pretty much everything that has been addressed or said, really.
As for the Arrancar/Adjuchas dilemma, I guess realistically if the change was to happen, people could always role-play their evolution or animal-hollow state as a past thread if they go human, not like it would really change much, I don't think. I do see that Kurai has worked hard to get where she is at, which might be the bummer to the situation, Cain.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 11:38:40 GMT -8
Two questions about NPCs. You said before that they grow at 1/2 RP unless the main character is in the thread. (Presumably if there is another character from another player already in the thread) Does that mean that both characters get 1 RP, or the NPC stops earning RP? Secondly, will you be introducing 1/2 RP points, and if you do, will they also apply to those who are exited by a mod? Indeed, if an NPC is exited by a mod, would they get 1/4 RP points? (If you want my opinion, I'd have 1/2 RP points, but if someone is kicked, they are still rounded down)
I am a farmer T_T And a miner, and a lumberjack, and I'm OK. I sleep all night. I work all day. And if we don't want you to deduct our cash? =/
On thread limits, and going back to time paradoxes, I think we should keep most of our temporal rules. Past threads to be at least 5 years in the past, no entering a present thread which takes place before one that your character has already been in, but add in an exception for instances when the later thread is an event thread. I think that should take care of Frox's concerns, without causing too much in the way of temporal issues.
Cash income, I think 20 a week is too much, honestly. I'd go with half that. Maybe 20 every other week? However, I think the frequency of payment should be decided by the cash mod. If Haru finds it too difficult to update everyone's profiles with gold every week, then we should reduce frequency and up the payment made each time. Furthermore, I would reduce the cost of a custom item to say...200 gold. I think five months is about right (assuming the amount of pay I suggested in the above paragraph is implemented).
Yeah, on bounties I shall abstain from gaming the system there. Though do remember that you are providing incentive for murder. Not making a moral point or anything here, just an economic one I don't know how much it will increase the amount of player killing but please, only implement it if you want to provide incentive for it. And to be clear, I'm not strongly against the implementation of a bounty system, I just think it needs very careful consideration.
I'm always up for pie charts. Seriously though, the registration RP system has a flaw. In the long run it is better to pile all 3 of your points into one stat, as it saves you having to spend 100 RP in the future. However, in the short run it can leave your character rather imbalanced.
Current caps are not 4-3-3-2, they are 4-3-2-2. Edit, Jeff cannot read, Cain did say 4-3-2-2. ApologiesI will say though, I do prefer 4-3-3-2 to 4-3-2-2.
Yes, I'd want to respec. I was hoping for a character that can do some heavy lifting, but used a weapon, rather than his fists.
If stat and skill tiers were divorced, would it then become that we could do 4-3-3-2 in any stat tiers, and the same in any skill tiers? Like, could I have Reiatsu-3 Speed-2 Strength-4 Stanima-3 Reiatsu-2 Footwork-3 Hand to hand-3 Weaponry-4 ?
Something I mentioned before but wasn't picked up on. Does anyone else think that the infection abilities are of little use, especially for being a T4 ability?
I'm afraid you are mistaken Cain. The answer was It's as he said; everyone, Shinigami or otherwise, would be stopped at the gates, day or night though, for a sign-in type procedure. A state your business type thing. [b]It's not open to the general public though, if that's what you're asking.[/b] Said status may change due to RP events. akatokiyami.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=qanda&thread=5103&page=3#41225
Wasteland, may I suggest putting it back now, and then you can implement zones at a later date?
Your statement on kicking sounds fair and reasonable.
Arrancar, I'd probably just be echoing Kurai's arguments... I would need to give a good long look to the different abilities, and I fear being unfamiliar with Bleach is a disadvantage here.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 11:50:14 GMT -8
I won't talk statistics and whatnot. I'm bad with balancing numbers.
Honestly, I'll point out that Shinigami are really nice and varied because dispite them all looking very similar and functioning similar, their divisions make them cosmetically different. Their ranks make becoming Captain a goal. It's a driving force for them.
Now, Hollow have this in the form of Arrancar. They strive to build their abilities, and they actually have more freedom to reach that point as they aren't limited by how many of their superiors there can be at any given time. Certainly Shinigami are able to surpass their Captains and supplant them, but it's less volatile an environment than with hollow because Shinigami aren't necessarily competitive creatures. You don't need to open up an infinite number of ranking spots (And I mean ranking in a rather nebulous fashion) because there's other places to go. A character can be content just being an unseated officer with friggin' Bankai if they get that far.
Hollow, though, need Arrancar because it provides something for them to rise to. They are designed both in show canon and in AK canon, from what I've seen, as competitive and volatile, and so it makes much more sense to have this open higher tier, if that makes sense. Segunda Etapa, though I was not around for this inclusion, makes more sense because similar to Shinigami, once you've gotten to this higher tier state, you want to still have your old cosmetic things. People who make Adjucha over Arrancar, I'd argue, wanted their character to seem more animalistic.
Notably, this doesn't exist in the Rukon Citizens area, which may explain some of the reluctance to play them. They don't have that same upper tier goal. I don't think they should, though. I think they play fine and feel fine. There are other things I would say affect people playing them.
Ultimately, I'm arguing that hollow should remain as is. As stated before me, Kurai has worked hard to achieve what she has now, and removing that upper tier evolution is like saying "You're all that you should be." That's a bad thing to do for a character with motive is my point.
Hope that makes sense. Probably doesn't. Whatever.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 12:05:33 GMT -8
Er, no. Stats as they are are turning into something of a quagmire, not about to throw boosts and other stat-affecting abilities back into the mix. As to the differences between Hollow and Arrancar, they're already minor enough as is - for the longest time everybody wanted Segunda Etapa, which was literally nothing more than the ability to turn back into the Adjucha state and access those powers. So why not allow Adjucha to look like broken-mask wearing humans and retain their own powers in the first place, cutting out the middle man? Okay, so nothing with the stats then. How about an upgraded in allotted attacks? I suggest, then, that we allow for two attacks in a Shini/Hollow first release and three attacks for a Shini/Hollow second release?
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
17
Years Old
Female
Heterosexual
Blessed are the Peacekeepers, Champions of the Just
4,162 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Mhairyn "Aryn" Dirson on Apr 6, 2013 17:07:07 GMT -8
I'm still mulling over the arrancar and other proposals, so expect a later post with those, but since this one was kind of addressed directly to me, I'll take it on.
No, this doesn't take care of my concerns. I've been waiting since November to do a thread with Ryan in the present to introduce Fenris into the equation. I can't do this because of the way things are currently progressing; Mai hasn't been home for more than a brief stint in her continuum since the horde, and there still is a lot for her to go through before she can go home.
A lot has been sacrificed because I can't get the frequency I need to establish relationships that I need within my Division. Mai's history states that she's been making friends. I have no evidence to put to that, and you have no way of knowing that her and Aya are close (erhmahgawdwhendidthathappen?!) -- Fomal and I haven't had the chance to expand on that first meeting. I have at least three family threads I would like to get done. I owe Ume an exam because we all exited a thread to go to an event that started several months after the thread we left even started -- for me, this equates to a three-month (or one season) lapse in time where things could have been done, but weren't.
Maybe a lot of this is due to lack of a clear-cut time progression definition, so if there's one implemented it could help -- as far as I know, the day/season the thread is created unless otherwise stated (in a present thread not connected to any other) is the general time that the thread takes place.
I mentioned earlier that I do not want to assume the reactions of another's character. I do not feel right doing that. As a writer, I know that things can often take their own course that is not what was intended or imagined at the beginning. I would hate to have that feeling taken from me because I feel that it is important crucial to character development. Assuming that X happens, even with in depth discussion, is like getting the same Christmas sweater year after year when all you want is that bike -- Z can be so much better!
I very much liked the idea of not having a dated limitation on past threads because it then enables me to get what needs done done without having to sacrifice anything I feel is entirely crucial. I could be having a thread with Aya right now in the spring with a bunch of flowers or other girly things while still finishing up my stuff with Harupia after my traumatic experience, but because it's technically a present thread, I can't, even though it's Fall. I am also more than pleased at the idea of being in up to three past threads at once -- any more and I would feel overwhelmed, regardless of how many the account could be joining in. I've been in over ten threads at a time, and it does get a little stressful as the poster, and I do not fault Cain at all for wanting to limit it to save his sanity.
Perhaps, and forgive my choice of terms here (I'm running on two and a half hours sleep with the aide of a couple of Monsters) there could be up to two Past Threads more than X years apart, a Present Progressive thread where the thread is an immediate or near-to continuation/consequence of the last present thread, the Present thread, and then the Event thread. This could also require a more disciplined mind of the memberbase, as they would have to decide when the current thread would be taking place (ie, this takes place the evening after the horde invasion, this takes place immediately following getting stabbed in the eye, OR this takes place between these two threads / a small breather).
I am very much aware of the problems lesser-restricted thread limitation can cause and the potential loopholes that can be exploited, but there is a way to fix it if we all can come to a general consensus. There can be a PvP mode where no one in the present thread is allowed to enter any threads created even weeks later (can we say immunity??). There could be a mod intervention when death is about to be dealt that, if it could potentially affect any future RP, decides the outcome -- we all know of those I should be dead stories, so it is entirely plausible in some cases (I know of a girl who was very nearly decapitated at the barn we boarded at when I was in grade school but did not die, or that construction worker with the rebar through whichever crucial part of his body). All it takes is a little bit of TLC.
and real quick: PBv5 info - I can't remember if I said this or not, but as far as I know, you can select a different account at the time of your login assuming you used the same email and password for each. I'm not sure if the beta board is still around, but it might help if we could go and putz around on it or one that is in PBv5. I'd be more than happy to send the info out for my mine for whoever wants it
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 21:04:26 GMT -8
To start off with, I like the term Minor Character. Just feels like a accurate description of what the NPC's are supposed to be.
Can we use the Orbs in order to increase the stats of an NPC?
For the items, I just remembered Dect's suggestion on there being the option to either directly purchase an item or haggle with an NPC. Now that I think about it isn't that what would happen if we did implement the R&D system. You could either directly purchase the item for a set amount or you could have a thread with another PC who can craft the item and discuss the price with them. Granted this wouldn't work for things like salves but I can see it working for a lot of the other items.
So if we do implement an R&D system is that going to count as one of the stats that we need to decide a stat cap on?
I also want to know if it will just be for weapons/armor or if it can apply to custom items in order to make crafting them easier.
Personally I'm in favor of dropping the past thread limits. We all know our schedules for the most part so I know that a lot of us are able to pace ourselves.
For the payments I think 20-25 gold per week seems reasonable. If we want to go with what Jeff said and say that you should be able to buy an item if you've saved up for about 5 months then we should go with 25 gold per week.
I like the idea of everyone starting off with 5 points in registration but Minor Character/SC/insert other name for NPC here start with 3.
If we did do that would we still want to give an extra point to people in a faction if that faction is low on members either now or if this issue comes up again in the future?
I also have to say that I support the ability to increase your stat caps. Plus it makes sense that when someone trains really hard in one of their weaker areas, it will eventually improve.
I know we can't use the Orb in order to increase the value of the stat cap, but once that stat cap has been increased can we still use the orb to increase that stat? Also would we be able to increase the stat caps of secondary characters?
I think I might want to re-spec if we do separate the stats and skills, but considering that Biru is in registration I'm not sure how much that would really apply to me.
For quality points, while I can't speak for everyone else, I would rather know which post or posts earned the quality points. That way I can see what I did right in that post and take note of it for any future posts.
I think the three days then you can request an exit rule seems to be a fair to do things. Only thing I'm worried about is if for some reason no one is able to exit them for a while.
So what if we made it so that if someone requests an exit for another character, then the next person who should post can be allowed to post in the thread. That way we can keep things moving.
I do agree with Jeff that the reiatsu infection seems less useful than some of the other tier 4 abilities. I think we might also want to review the abilities and try and replace some of the less useful ones. I remember bringing this up earlier with Dos Cero/Gran Ray Cero for arrancar. Plus I feel that the unspoken bankai/shikai/Res/Segunda all seem much less useful than the tier 3 or tier 4 abilities for the other skill trees.
Finally for the Arrancar/Hollow suggestion Yuka gave, I have to say that as someone who has played an arrancar, I really really like that idea. Looking at the adjuchas are set up and what I remember of the arrancar set up, I would rather play a humanoid hollow with the adjuchas setup over the arrancar one. Only thing I would say is that we should get rid of Dos Cero or Negacion in favor of adding Bala for the adjuchas setup. Overall the adjuchas setup just feels more versatile and personally I think that it would make playing a hollow much more attractive.
I can understand why Kurai is bummed out if we did go with this, but I think the differences between Arrancar/Adjuchas could be more of a character development/RP thing instead of a mechanics thing. If a character becomes an arrancar it could be because of some IC event that occurs or happened in their backstory. The mechanics for the character would stay the same, but their form would be altered due to this change. So for example if i'm playing an adjuchas, maybe he sees a friend die for some reason. In his grief he ends up tearing his mask off and becomes an arrancar. I think that would make more sense than that adjuchas gaining a certain amount of stats or abilities then suddenly the way that he is able to use all of those abilities suddenly changes.
Hopefully that made sense though I can try to clarify if that is needed.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 21:24:38 GMT -8
Guess it doesn't help Frox. Apologies for that.
The test server is still running. akatokiyami.freemessageboards.com/
These are all good suggestions for renaming the NPC. Although I would prefer to avoid Other Character, or anything that abbreviates to AC or SC. I feel SC may end up as second character, which would confuse it with the other main. Same reason for other. As for AC, there are already a lot of things that abbreviate to AC. Air Conditioning, Alternating Current, Animal Crossing, Assassins Creed...
I am repeating myself, but I still think 20 gold a week is too much. Furthermore, I think we should keep to monthly payments, since Haru has to go and edit all these profiles, and I don't think we should increase his workload, especially as he may have a bunch of second profiles to do as well.
What Crazy said on quality points. Can you tell us which posts earned the points?
There is the issue if the exit request is denied. However the mods could give authority to have the offender's turn skipped.
|
|
New Member
IS OFFLINE
17
Years Old
Female
Heterosexual
Blessed are the Peacekeepers, Champions of the Just
4,162 POSTS & 1 LIKE
|
Post by Mhairyn "Aryn" Dirson on Apr 6, 2013 21:58:28 GMT -8
Arrancar vs Adjucha – Fomal has a point. The shinigami have goals and a structure and do well with it. They are very appealing because of this. High rankers – okay with the 5/3 spread, moreso if an agreement is reached with the melding of an arrancar and adjucha – how about similar skills (if not exactly identical) and have the adjucha be the more animalistic of the species with the arrancar the more humanoid? Only difficulty is then explaining the appearance of the zanny, which could then maybe be revised to be like the soulbound item of the citizen? And if they so chose, willfully, they can change their appearance into that of the other form, but only once. Later down the line, maybe an option can be presented for them to change back if they suddenly don’t care – or segunda etap can be a gift bestowed upon them by some Cain-like being in exchange for something highly expensive/precious – some sort of double edged sword Stats/skills – im cool with adding in the rd/crafting, but to make it fair or similar to the others, would there be a recipe purchased? Like, level one tantou – 10 rp? Respeccing – I would maybe opt out of some things I chose, but maybe I wouldn’t. if there is an option, I would totally consider it heavily NPC / RP Gain ½ RP – I like this, but that might mean double rp if both are in a thread – perhaps make the quality point addition half if this is the case to avoid quick buildup? Or raise the prices of all skills to be purchased – only if it looks to be an issue? Cash Deductions – Never sure if this was at all applicable before, so I personally hadn’t tried it. I am totally cool with you guys taking my cash if I rp out the purchase of something. I also haven’t tried stealing from ryan because I wasn’t sure if I would be allowed/able to. Never had the chance on Lyra, much to Mihamaru’s pleasure. I woulda robbed him blind >..> Bounties – maybe if the member base was bigger. I think we’re too small as is and we don’t have the right set-up for it. Payday – I’ve been paid weekly, bimonthly, and monthly irl. There honestly isn’t a difference (unless you’re super broke like me) so it would totally depend on the cash moderator. Custom item – leave as is or have a registration process to determine the cost of the item. Like, for my cloak, 500 would probably have been a little spendy unless it was lined with the fur of a dozen innocent baby kittens. And if I had to spend 500 gold, I would have gone for something much more practical and kinda worth the price, tbh RP system stats and skills – ok with as is, but have no idea of a practical reason for the infection skills tbh Registration – maybe instead of 5 points, offer rp to spend? That way, you can have a wellrounded character at the beginning to see what does or doesn’t work? Caps 4332 sounds good Ability to raise preferred – increase skill without corresponding stat good (I am a terrible fighter but I can knock my horse off his front end) Better to have come and go at will with signin sheets and gates closed at night imho, but some sort of ‘customs’ type of procedure – this is a military base, don’t forget. Thread kicking – if at 3 days and no posting, if there are other members in the thread and no word of stagnating char, vote to skip or remove (skip one round, if not posted by second, remove?); if around and not posting, skip to make them feel bad for being a jerkface >_> Quality posts – I would like to know what I did to deserve it or how to get more; im personally very bland on description because I learned to be cautious with my words and to only say what I think is necessary. I try very hard to be short and to the point while focusing on correct grammar/word choice/word usage and if I try to make something longer, it seriously suffers. I guess I would like to know how to gauge myself better to make myself better. Readdressing reward bonuses - im not sure if I managed to totally skim over any responses to this, excluding Gaara’s shout out and Jeff’s kinda question. Has there been something and I am blind or does no one else have a serious problem with it? In response to jeff’s question – I honestly would prefer a badge on my profile that yes, I was nominated for motm/wotm/cotm over some points. Im going to use the competition metaphor here, not that I think it is a competition, but I was always so heart broken that I never got a token for a job well done for the first three years I showed a horse. I am now sitting here at my desk staring at the ribbons, the medallions, the trophy, my first number, my I did it Myself certificate of completion and I can remember each and every single one of them and how I got there. They make me feel proud. At work, we had a pool on how many kittens the preggers stray was gonna have. I won and got a card for coffee, which was promptly spent. I can’t remember a damn thing about that cat. Because jeffs a ninja and I am too lazy to put these in their proper funky and not fully informed sections: I don’t think I can remember what I supposedly helped you with D: Okay on the server, wasn’t sure – was it directly tied it the pbv4 in that what happens on 4 happens on 5? NPCs – I chose AC for that very reason , even though I would define it as Associated Character I also chose SC for secondary character because the account it’s tied to is the Primary. You all calling a second account secondary is kind of misleading to me. I am, and maybe a few others are, accustomed to calling the second account an Alt, or alternate character.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 22:41:39 GMT -8
I'm tired too, so I'll just address 2 of Frox's points.
The help thing, it was my suggestion about the past thread thing, which you shot down. My suggestion wasn't of any use to you.
Your English is a bit unclear on the V5 thing, but guessing what you were asking
When the beta (V5) board was created, it was the same as this board was at that time. However the two boards are not in sync at all. It's like copying a file. They may both be the same at the point they were copied, but changes to one do not reflect on the other.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 9:17:33 GMT -8
Alright, first thing's first, I see the arguments, and I admit my idea wasn't grand - Hollow and Arrancar will stay as separate beings. That said, there are people who want Hollow to be able to be more human than animal, and so we'll make room for that too - they won't be able to pass for Human by a long shot, but they at least won't need to be roaches or dogs or dragons.
Then we won't - it isn't a one way street. Though I must ask how you can first be so dead-set against frivolous spending and then in the next breath condemn the idea of 'too much' money. So maybe we give 'too much' money and then take the money away anyways! Dohohoho Capitalismyes.
In the world of RPG, this is called 'you have a limited stat pool and you have to decide what sort of advantage you want now versus later'. This is not a flaw - this is just how the game works. You need to decide at creation if you want to imbalance yourself in one specific way or try to go it as a 'jack of all trades' and hope for the best.
That is what having the tiers divorced means, yes. o.o
As for the Infection Abilities - I'm seeing a whole lot of 'these don't seem useful' and not a lot of 'so instead how about'. It's really easy to condemn an idea, y'all, but making a suitable replacement less so. The Infection Abilities are where they are because they are abilities that cannot be easily cured - in other words, those above almost all others are supposed to be wounds that cripple not temporarily, but in a way that honestly affects the character. Naturally, if people want to offer up replacements, that is another thing that can be done, but for right now, let's save abilities and such for another time. For right now, let's focus on the sort of things that are key - Tier alterations, Faction changes, Alternate and Secondary Characters, and things we want to see added into the game ala R&D. Abilities and Skills won't necessarily be things that will see use immediately, and anyways are things that can be changed later on with minimal fuss.
The 'release bonuses' Shinigami and Arrancar have are, in fact, the attacks they gain from those releases, because stats are not something to be so intensely focused on or compared. In that regard, you have had your release bonuses from the beginning, you simply haven't been regarding them as such.
Because there's been little useful input on what to name the Alternate Characters and Secondary Characters, only input on what we don't like, I'm going to go ahead and take a stand now. Alternate Characters will be the 'second characters' of which Factions the first Characters do not belong to, and the Secondary Characters will be the ones that operate beneath the banner of their Primary Character.
Orbs increase the tiers you have versus the tiers you can achieve, regardless of whether the tier was raised to a higher cap or if 'your' tier is indeed on the NPC.
Yeah, we probably should cap these R&D Skills. Say everybody can learn up to 2, and then you have to make the conscious choice to purchase tiers 3 and 4 before you can learn tiers 3 and 4; you have to raise the cap yourself. This makes the Skill valuable, as not every character is going to be willing to invest the cost.
Which reminds me. Because nobody commented on it, I have to assume we all agree on the Tier Up method - by paying 50 or 100 RP, you can increase one Tier 2 to Tier 3 or one Tier 3 to Tier 4, for a maximum Tier Cap of 4-4-3-3. The R&D Skills will not count toward these caps. Unless you all WANT to see a possibility for All-4 Caps? That's something that needs to be brought up.
Custom items will not be affected by R&D score because giving people the power to create custom items at-will or at dirt cheap costs means I might as well just allow full-blown broken R&D. Custom Items are as prohibitively expensive as they are to limit people getting them, because outside the 'small' ones awarded for birthdays, they generally only cause trouble in the difficulty registering them, in the difficulty keepign them on a curve, and for every other reason any sane mod hates registering Zanpakuto/attacks over anything else.
If you recognize a faction is failing and you want to remedy that, why are you demanding incentive to do what you already want to happen? This is already what the Alt Characters are for - to start filling out the failing factions.
For the showing which posts earned quality points, yeah, I can try to figure out how to do this in an unobtrusive way that won't add too much time to the grading process.
I don't see why after three days, somebody sending me a request to have somebody exited would take long. The only reason the current model takes so long every now and then is because I don't spend time every day reading every active thread to see who all is keeping active/what threads are over/et cetera. A friendly PM from the next person in line or the last person to exit a thread requesting an exiting/a grading would go a long way in speeding things up.
R&D Recipes is actually a great idea, and therefore something we're going to add in to the equation :B Thank you~
And to cover the whole cosmetic reward thing: Yes, if some sort of system comes into play that will allow me to give players cosmetic/lasting rewards, they will supplant the removed 'I got RP' system.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 9:23:44 GMT -8
Only two things:
I have the same question as Jeff; to clarify, would I be able to raise Hand to Hand to tier 4 if Strength is only tier 2? Also, related: I would not respec. One of the reasons I have barely spent my rp is because I can't build my character the way I want.
EDIT: question answered.
Second thing! You say that there is nothing stopping us from having a profession/crafty skill, and then you go on to say we can't be blacksmiths. I considered having Rip smith things, since he's a walking furnace. But I can't do that. Oh, here's a thought; smiths, fletcher's, etc can only make weapons/armour if they have a license issued by the Shinigami. Would allow people (me) to play a blacksmith without stepping on the weapon mechanic's toes. Also, it would give the Rukons one more thing to grumble about.
Adding something. I don't like the ability to increase stat caps. I could only agree to it if we were restricted to only being able to increase the cap on one stat. No more. But, as usual, that's just me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 9:29:33 GMT -8
My bad, didn't realize I didn't cover that - Yes, Skills can be raised independent of Stats. Actually now that I type that I'm sure I did, but it's probably lost in the middle of a larger post.
If you want to smith the iron as in garden tools, horse shoes, what have you, please feel free. You just can't do weapons and armor without the attendant R&D skills I went ahead and defined in either my last or previous posts.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 10:56:44 GMT -8
Wanted to add this then, but I forgot, so I'll do it now.
The last time we had one of these (maybe before half of you were ever here) it went nowhere after so long because eventually people just weren't contributing. So in order to stop that happening, thread ends in 24 hours and whatever's left open for discussion will be matters I'll be taking care of personally. So yeah, 24 hours folks! Unless something happens during this exercise and I'm not back by then but we'll see :I
|
|