Apr 7, 2013 10:56:44 GMT -8 @hanataro said:

Wanted to add this then, but I forgot, so I'll do it now.

The last time we had one of these (maybe before half of you were ever here) it went nowhere after so long because eventually people just weren't contributing. So in order to stop that happening, thread ends in 24 hours and whatever's left open for discussion will be matters I'll be taking care of personally. So yeah, 24 hours folks! Unless something happens during this exercise and I'm not back by then but we'll see :I

Especially those of you who havent contributed! D:

Feedback no matter how minor is appreciated

sent from my notsosmartphone of breakingthingsness

I have a thought, or had a thought earlier this morning. In advance I apologize if it doesn't make no sense, I was a little delirious at the time. But it could be something useful, maybe?

High Ranking Characters

Now I'm sure this has been addressed to some extent, and Aki-san herself pointed out something about it for the Arrancar and how it doesn't really make much sense, cuz really at the end of the day if everyone has maxed their caps (like the new 4-3-3-2 suggestion btw) the only difference a high ranked character is in how they are rp'd due to their position. I had a thought on how this could be remedied and it does have to do with our tier system.

In a nut shell, 5 members of the Arrancar populace (because let's face it even in series not all Arrancar are considered the top of the food chain), the 5 Captains of the Gotei and if we can come up with some suitable roles for the Rukongai, 5 for them as well, get a slightly higher tier cap. For example, 2, 3, 4 and 5. In this way there will actually be a noticeable difference in ability between the high ranking tiers and others.

As for what a tier 5 ability can be (if we don't create a few more), I say we have it so they can purchase one ability they would normally not be able to. In this way there is a little bit more customization for said characters.

Just a thought, and I will not be offended to have it bashed all to hell. So, please bash away XD

Apr 7, 2013 12:33:14 GMT -8 Mallach Dirson said:

As for what a tier 5 ability can be (if we don't create a few more), I say we have it so they can purchase one ability they would normally not be able to. In this way there is a little bit more customization for said characters.

Just a thought, and I will not be offended to have it bashed all to hell. So, please bash away XD

Batmal had a good idea. I like this implementation because it makes high-ranking characters feel discernibly different, provided tier 5 abilities are enough to individualize them.

I'm not sure where we landed as far as Adjucha/Arrancar go, but something I thought of across the board that could be noodled with is allowing a tier 5 ability to be custom registered at some point. I personally like the idea that each character, even at full power and maxed tiers with the same cap layout as another character, can have differences based on their character design. Aya, for instance, were she a high-rank, would eventually achieve a 5/5 in Hand-to-Hand and I'd go in and try and pass some ability that like... enabled her to forgo Bankai (a weaponry-tied ability) and like... fuse with her Zanpakutou temporarily, achieving a sort of hand-to-hand based release.

Naturally, it'd need balancing, but it'd be something beyond the normal Shikai/Bankai differences that are only apparent when released. Maybe your character has some absurd speed-oriented ability where they can phase through things. Maybe they have enough weaponry such that they can use someone else's Shikai/Bankai.

I mean, I dunno. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Also, Rukon Citizens don't really have any high-rank stuff. It's something to be assessed no matter what.

I hope that doesn't sound retarded. I suspect people are reading it like, "That's an awful idea." but I digress.

So to summarize, you guys are arguing that just having two characters with completely different stat spreads, different suites of powers that you registered as your Zanpakuto and being different personalities altogether is not enough to make you different, now we need to stop what we've been doing in an effort to make the tiers at all relatable to people and create whole new tiers that have no specified function, they just have a higher number and therefore are cooler?

I'm open to suggestions guys, I really am, but I need a bit more than just "I feel like my current options of making a unique character are limited, we should have tier 5 abilities" - especially when it seems your argument for Tier 5 abilities are just 'things my character could do with a Zanpakuto anyways'.

Apr 7, 2013 13:46:41 GMT -8 @hanataro said:

So to summarize, you guys are arguing that just having two characters with completely different stat spreads, different suites of powers that you registered as your Zanpakuto and being different personalities altogether is not enough to make you different, now we need to stop what we've been doing in an effort to make the tiers at all relatable to people and create whole new tiers that have no specified function, they just have a higher number and therefore are cooler?

I'm open to suggestions guys, I really am, but I need a bit more than just "I feel like my current options of making a unique character are limited, we should have tier 5 abilities" - especially when it seems your argument for Tier 5 abilities are just 'things my character could do with a Zanpakuto anyways'.

Well, no that's not what I said at all. I merely suggested a new level of tier for higher ranking characters to actually make them stand out. I did not say anything to do with a zanpakuto, so just don't go lumping us all together sir XD.

Were we to introduce tier 5 for higher ranks than we should and easily could introduce a new ability(ies) for said tier. Having those to do with a zanpakuto, sure I could see it being down for the weapon skill one, an extension of what we already have in place. What that extension could be... Well I'd (we'd) have to think a bit more on that.

As I stated, my suggestion for the tier five was just to make a noticeable difference in the ranking, in terms of overall ability. And clearly this new tier would have a function, but again that's something that would need to be created and be a noticeable difference from what we already have.

No offense to Mal. Really. But I think that's a terrible idea. And I mean really, really terrible.

Much of this thread has been the argument that the Shinigami are great because they have something to strive for. If you introduce a fifth tier for High Rank Characters exclusively then you basically say no one can strive for that. You are saying, effectively, that these five characters are entirely unapproachable in ability. Military ranks do not make someone stronger.

Actually, it would only make sense for Arrancar. The idea being that they evolved into something stronger. But it's still a terrible idea.

I think what we've established in this thread is that High Ranking Characters don't actually exist. There's just Ranked Characters. That is to say a character who happens to hold a Military rank.

It seems like the term is just there to stroke the ego. In reality it's a Character Who Holds a Position of Greater Responsibility. You know, because you're suppose to run a division. I honestly don't think this applies to Hollow in any way because they don't have ranks, or positions, or anything like that.

But regardless, you shouldn't get anything special for it. Having the position is saying that you are good enough to, in theory, manage a division. That should be enough.

Then we won't - it isn't a one way street. Though I must ask how you can first be so dead-set against frivolous spending and then in the next breath condemn the idea of 'too much' money. So maybe we give 'too much' money and then take the money away anyways! Dohohoho Capitalismyes.

Well, psychologically there's a difference between expenditure and lesser-increased income.

Most of what I've said on frivolous spending is under the current payment model.

And then there is the matter of incentives and stuffs.

True, the increased payment will alleviate the issue, but it won't remove it. I'm not sure how much it will alleviate it by, however.

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People tend to be rather squishy here. Infection may be more useful against Hollow, but Rukons and Shinigami especially have the Second Division.

But yeah, we do need to come up with a replacement first.

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Because there's been little useful input on what to name the Alternate Characters and Secondary Characters, only input on what we don't like, I'm going to go ahead and take a stand now. Alternate Characters will be the 'second characters' of which Factions the first Characters do not belong to, and the Secondary Characters will be the ones that operate beneath the banner of their Primary Character.

Please no. Good suggestions have been given, and honestly, these are so bad I suspect you are trolling. I cannot emphasise enough how terrible these are. They are confusing, and either term could logically be applied to the other.

Umm... How about we call them Major and Minor characters? =/

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4-4-4-4 is something I think we can leave until people max everything else.

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I think the requiring a permit from the Shinigami would probably be a step too far given plot set-up, but if it is, I think it should be introduced as having happened at that time IC, rather than always having been assumed to existed.

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24 hours may be a bit tight, although a review post of all the discussion would be helpful. A summary of all that has been decided and what still needs decided on.

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Gonna wade in on high rankers again here. And this may go against what I have said earlier, but honestly, I don't think the initial bonus is needed.

When the current iteration of AK was created, it made sense that captains and Arrancar would be given a boost, as they should be considered as being stronger than their subordinates/beast Hollows. However time has passed, and people are now stronger. We have people who can replace any open positions, at least with the Shinigami.

So, maybe keep it for Arrancar for now, but scrap it for Shinigami.

A different bonus such as Tier 5 may be an idea for Shinigami, but I'm not sure it is the way to go.

Another thought (minor thing) how about renaming "Poor" to "Mediocre"? I just think it fits better.

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Final note, I do realise that I do have more of an ability to spot problems than offer solutions, and a habit of viewing things negatively and for this I apologise.

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Just wanted to say that Carb just said some good stuff.

" 'Because there's been little useful input on what to name the Alternate Characters and Secondary Characters, only input on what we don't like, I'm going to go ahead and take a stand now. Alternate Characters will be the 'second characters' of which Factions the first Characters do not belong to, and the Secondary Characters will be the ones that operate beneath the banner of their Primary Character.'


" 'Please no. Good suggestions have been given, and honestly, these are so bad I suspect you are trolling. I cannot emphasise enough how terrible these are. They are confusing, and either term could logically be applied to the other.

" 'Umm... How about we call them Major and Minor characters? =/' "

Calling them Major and Minor offers no differentiation if we were to abbreviate them. That's why we keep pushing the pc/ac/sc. The Second Character, which does not belong in the faction that your current character is in, is equal in every regard to your current character.

Advice: think of the color wheel. Magenta, Cyan, and Yellow are your Primary Characters, while Green, Orange, and Purple are your Secondary, Associated, Characters.

I think you're making this way too complex. Cain's suggestion makes perfect sense. There's a Primary Character, which is either the Main Character or the Alternate Character; each of those has an assistant/associated/secondary character. This is how I see it and this is what I will call them, so unless you can offer a better, more clear explanation, then you're going to have to man up and deal with it.

Tier 5 - No. I think divorcing stats and skills is more than enough to allow us the customization that we need. As for the other skills / abilities, what we have is good. I'm leaning toward not changing them - except for the necessary grooming for combining the Adjucha and Arrancar classes- and am about to start pushing for if you don't like it, don't use it and don't bitch about it if it gets used against you. Captaincy should be able to stand out on its own: "I think what we've established in this thread is that High Ranking Characters don't actually exist. There's just Ranked Characters. That is to say a character who happens to hold a Military rank." - I agree with Carb.


Insofar, I can't all remember what all has been agreed or decided upon, or what I've stated my views on. So, if we could get a list after the 24 hour limit has passed, that would be much appreciated. o.o7

I'm gonna just throw a few suggestions out here.

Higher & Lower
Main & Lesser
Full & Half
Laceys

Its nice to come back from vacation and have this sprung on me.

I'm going to be very blunt.

I didn't read most of this thread because the more I read, the more irritated I got.

Let me bullet point a few things I'd like to address

* Gold, what do we need more of it for? No one buys anything anyway. If anything, there should be a complaint about lack of compelling items, rather than not having enough money on their character.

*More characters/Registered NPCs - Sorry but I don't think, myself included, the majority of the site can handle the activity multi-characters require. Its a horrible, horrible idea.

*Complaints about activity/lack of events/current system - Sorry guys, but its each and every members fault. akatokiyami.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=5090&page=7 I've ran threads and yes, I realize its my job to make it interesting and fun for the members, but frankly, its became a chore when a member is either non-engaging, or barely skirts the activity rules, or ignores them all together. I've came up with loads of fun event ideas, but do I bother mentioning them, or trying to implement them? No, I dont trust any of us to carry them out to their extent, doing the event justice.
Sure, its easy to scapegoat the current system. Its a great departure from the old days, but I honestly liked it. It was MUCH simpler than before, and with our small member base, with its activity level, I like it. I actually could stand for it to be simpler, since we're such casual RPers.

Honestly, thats what we are, guys. We're casual. If you all think adding more complications to a system, adding more options, is a good idea, I am going to have to disagree with you. Its not going to live up to its potential, but you're all welcome to try. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.

For now, I really don't have anything to add or have a desire to discuss things, until I've mulled over this thread a bit more.

Well to start with, for the Adjuchas vs. Arrancar issue I think if we are going to keep them separate we need to at least change the arrancar's setup and make it more similar to the adjuchas's setup as Frox suggested. Because as it is right now, the arrancar's setup needs some sort of change so it can be on par with the adjuchas's setup.



For the Infection ability I can see your point for what it should be. But as Jeff noted, people aren't extremely durable. I think if you did get a wound that would cripple you because chiyudo wouldn't work on it, you probably won't survive the fight because you received such a grievous wound in the first place and would now be at a disadvantage. I would be more than happy to come up with a few suggestions after we're done with this thread though.



For the Primary/Secondary character naming convention, I'm fine with that one.



On the topic of the high ranking characters, I do like what Aya suggested for what we should do if we had a tier 5. It's a pretty interesting idea and would allow a character to have a really definite specialty. However I don't think that we really need that.

If we did decide to give some sort of advantage to taichou/arrancar then I think it should be allowing them to decide on what their 4-4-3-3 stat caps can be right off the bat. Would be reflected by them being more skilled and needing less work in order to improve in those areas. Although that's assuming we decide to even give them some sort of advantage in the first place.

Because my current work schedule is a pain in the ass, I'm afraid three hours are being cut from the deadline. Sorry everybody, but the time to add input has come and gone - when I have more than forty minutes to myself, another post will come along attempting to summarize what's what.

As always, thank you all for your patient assistance, and may the odds ever be in your favor.

Okay let's see if I can do this without making an unholy mess.

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One item decided on is Second/Alternate/"the name doesn't matter because we'll have it figured out in conversation anyways" Characters. In summary, the rules regarding such will be as follows: Second Characters will be registered on a Second Account. Second Characters will not be of the same Faction as the First Character. Second Characters otherwise will be precisely the same as First Characters.

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The second item decided on is NPC's/Associate/Underling/"the name still doesn't matter because we'll still figure it out in conversation" Characters. The summarized rules will be to the following effects: Associate Characters will be registered with the same account as the Primary Character to whom they are associated. Associate characters will begin with 3 Profile Points. Associate Characters will generate RP at 1/2 rate, meaning threads featuring both the Primary and it's Associated Character will gain for that Primary Character 1.5x RP. RP Gains are rounded down at thread completion, just as for characters who are exited. However, Associated Characters will grow at the same rate as a Primary Character. Should an Associate Character perish, Primary Characters will have to wait one month before registering a new Associate Character.

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The third defined item was the concept of R&D Skills. The summarized rules will be as follows: All factions will be introduced to universal R&D Weapon and R&D Armor Skills, which will be immediately available to all characters until Skill Level 2. To attain Skill 3 and 4, Characters must purchase the increased Tier Cap before purchasing the increased Tier itself. These Tiers will have the same price as the standard Tiers, and will not contribute to the 4-4-3-2 Stat Caps. The items capable of being created will be decided by what Item Recipes the Character obtains. Characters will be limited to creation of one Item Type created per thread, up to three items.

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Next on the docket, pay increases. For the time being, beginning this Sunday the 14th of April, pay will increase to 20 Gold every two weeks, which should effectively double what characters see a month. Bear in mind NPC/Associate Characters will not be given Gold, nor will Primary characters earn more for their presence. This may change in time depending on how things go.

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Carrying on, Hollow will no longer be restricted to purely animal shapes, and will be capable of being more humanoid in nature. Be advised Hollow will still be incapable of passing for human, but more human shapes will not be out of the question.

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On a related note, Arrancar will have the 'only Five' stipulation removed.

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The new Thread Limitations will be as follows: Primary Characters may be in a single Current thread at a time, and their Associate Characters may be in a simultaneous Current Thread. Players may be in as many Past Threads as they desire, with no restriction on the timetable for the thread setting. As well, Players will not need to exit any current threads to enter an Event thread, though they will be expected to maintain the Event's demanded activity.

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Going forward, characters who successfully slay another Character will, for their presumably 'harder' work, gain 10 RP as a bonus for the kill. Associate Characters slain will be worth 5 RP.

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otM Threads are going to begin being made, where players may publicly nominate other players for the respective categories. Players may also send in PM's to nominate anonymously. Nearer to the end of the month, voting will begin to define the winners and runners-up.

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For OOC threads/contests that are not otM wins, rewards will no longer be given in the form of RP - Gold or other suitable prizes may still be rewarded.

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For the sake of rapid grading, players are suggested to send me a PM containing a thread link and polite claim the thread is prepared to be graded. To go hand in hand with this, the Activity Rule is being made slightly more lax: heretoforth, after three days of inactivity, players in a thread may send a request to myself to have the player removed, rather than players needing fear simply being exited after three days. Ideally this will help everybody receive better results in terms of maintaining Activity.

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Soon/shortly, the Tier system is going to have a revamp in terms of the divorce between the Stat Tiers and Skill Tiers. Skill Tiers will no longer require the attendant Stat Tiers raised in order to be raised themselves. Furthermore, Stat and Skill Tiers need not mach in terms of Caps, which should allow for much more varied character customization.

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Characters will no longer be defined as 'High Ranked' or otherwise - instead, all characters will begin with a starting pool of 5 'Profile Points' to be spent on Stats, Skills or Abilities. The exception here is for Associate Characters, who will begin with 3.

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Players will be able to increase their Tier Caps by using RP to purchase the higher Tiers - for instance, by paying 50 RP, a Tier could increase from [1/2] to [1/3], and for 100 RP, [1/3] to [1/4]. The maximum allowed Tier Caps will at this point become 4-4-3-3, as opposed to the starting caps of 4-3-2-2

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And finally, the Wasteland will be moving back to it's previous location as it's own board, and when time is found will be given various sub-boards to increase available geography for the players to expect.

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And that pretty much sums up what all has gone down here, I think. Everybody should keep in mind that the Member Involvement thread is always open should ideas, complaints or anything else come to mind that anybody thinks would be food for thought. Thanks to everybody for participating, and lets keep ourselves entertained, yeah?!?